scott banfield
Mar 14, 2012 - Limited
If government carries out the will of the people, why does it have to keep guns pointed at them all the time?
Jacob S.Mar 15, 2012 (edited)Edit
{sarcasm} Well, as everyone already knows, which is hardly worth discussing, and it's pretty ridiculous to even ask the question, the people have elected their representatives, to force themselves to do what the people want themselves to do, because of their implicit consent to the social contract, which is an undeniable & irrefutable fact and we can not discuss this further until you convince me that everything you would like to propose is reasonable to me, because you are trying to trick me into asking questions which already contain your premises. [ lol ]
scott banfieldMar 15, 2012
MMM hmm. There's no gun pointed at anyone, it's an administrative thing.
Jacob S.Mar 15, 2012Edit
[sarcasm} If you want to live in a society, then everyone has to obey the rules, no matter how arbitrary, unreasonable, unjust or sometimes contradictory/physically-impossible. You have implictly consented to obey all those rules, so if you don't, no one has forced you to do anything, you agree to be punished by your implicit consent of the social contract; in fact, due to the social contract, if you think about it, it is you, that is putting yourself in jail for not obeying the rules of the authorities [and similarly, if you think about it, because of the implicit consent of the social contract, the Jews weren't murdered during the Holocaust, they by their implicit consent, they committed assisted-suicide].
Tom de LorenzoMar 15, 2012
"What's this gun you keep referring to? I've paid taxes all my life and no one has ever pointed a gun at me."
As well as I can remember the quote from an actual discussion thread I was on once.
Jacob S.Mar 15, 2012Edit
https://plus.google.com/100797452184452948613/posts/RoE8VDVjRHW "I am happy to pay taxes, because I see that the government does some really good things with that money! Sure they do some things I don't necessarily agree with, but the military is currently undergoing drastic reductions, and foreign military intervention is being decreased. The coercion by force to pay taxes comes in when people break the law. If you choose to break the law, then you choose to endure the consequences."
scott banfieldMar 15, 2012
Yes, yes all this talk about guns is just scare tactics. Over-dramatizing libertarian crusaders. People implicitly understand the social contract and their duty as an adult in society. There has to be some way to bring everybody into alignment on issues to have harmony. It's just the way it works. I don't see it being done any other way anyplace on earth and there's a got to be a reason for that.
Tom de LorenzoMar 15, 2012
Tanks with harmony turrets.
Jacob S.Mar 15, 2012Edit
{sarcasm} Exactly! If those libertarians can not point to a single place on earth, where people are given the "liberty" they talk so much about, then that is all the empirical proof that is needed, to demonstrate that such "liberty" in a society is not possible. In such a society, all there would be, is complete anarchy! All the bad/evil persons would organize into gangs and they would oppress the people and they would fight each other, until just one gang, got an edge on all the other gangs, and then came to tyrannize everyone! That's why we all implicitly consent to the social-contract and that's why we all need government to create rules for everyone, because without government, there would be one tyrannical gang, telling everyone what to do and punishing those that disobey!
Tom de LorenzoMar 15, 2012
Anarchy: Somalia. Mud huts. Warlords. Malaria.
scott banfieldMar 15, 2012
Exactly! You don't want one big gang network controlling everything do you???? Why next thing you know you might have the evil genius bosses of this gang snatching up your kids and whisking them off every day to actually be brainwashed into thinking the gang is virtuous and protective, convincing them that learning and knowledge are boring, logic doesn't exist, and that they must obey the gang to be safe. I could imagine after a couple generations of that everybody would start thinking that way!!!!! You would even have people begging to be controlled by the gang, or believing they actually control the gang themselves and the gang is the only thing keeping them alive. They might even attack those who challenge the gang and become the staunchest defenders of the gang, becoming hysterical and arguing endlessly in defense of the gang and calling those who do not like the gang heartless, cruel, and anti-social!
Wes BertrandMar 15, 2012 (edited)
Wow, I see you guys have been raiding the blue pill medicine cabinet! Nom nom. ;)
As Marc Stevens asks rhetorically, what evidence is there that those calling themselves government actually provide things that people want, given that their "provision" is coercively based? I also think it needs to be noted that "public property" is a contradiction in terms (nod to Miss Rand); so, as an involuntary "agency," those calling themselves government operate in no-man's land.
Here's an interesting 35min video:
Stossel made a keynote speech at Reason Weekend 2012, Reason Foundation's annual donor event
John Stossel on the Media, Liberty, and Why He Doesn't Miss Working for ABC
http://reason.com/blog/2012/03/13/reasontv-john-stossel-on-the-media-liber
His claim that free market processes and solutions "aren't intuitive" for the vast majority of people may be correct. Yet only in the Q&A does he identify (albeit with extreme brevity) the main reason: Children's learned obedience to parents as "authorities." Indeed, conditional parenting methods foster societies that welcome still more destructive "power over" relationships and unquestioning compliance to (and even cheering for) unjust "law."
scott banfieldMar 16, 2012
Yeah in the context of the culture they very much do not seem to be intuitive to people and even reactive. So there is the challenge, to act to allow reality to be sought without molestation and assault.
mary vandenbergMar 21, 2012
ahhh, i see... you guys just dont care about the poor the sick and the elderly...and for pete's sake WHAT ABOUT THE ROADS!!!!!
(sarcasm)
scott banfieldMar 21, 2012
The sun is shining. The birds are signing. It's a nice day to walk.
Jacob S.Mar 21, 2012Edit
Even better day for some fishing! :-D
April Christie BodnerYesterday 4:52 PM
Thank you all for the laugh fest I had while reading this thread!
Scott SwainYesterday 4:54 PM
Do you guys still do Saturday night video chats? Or some other time? Please add me to your invite list! I miss you!
scott banfieldYesterday 5:48 PM
Why yes. Yes we do! We've been doing Sunday nights too and an occasional weekday here and there. You're in the circle so in theory you should be getting invites each time at around 8-9 p.m. EDT, but maybe it's not functioning as we would like it too. We'll make sure you get an invite next time Scott
Jacob S.Yesterday 5:50 PMEdit
I've noticed that the invites to the Hangouts, no longer appear in my Google+ notifications like they used to... but I still see them in my timeline; that might be why +Scott Swain has not been seeing them as readily, especially if his timeline has a lot of action...
scott banfieldYesterday 5:56 PM
Yeah. It usually starts about 8 p.m. EDT. If anybody in the NVC circle checks in between 8 and 9 Saturday or Sunday hopefully the link to the hangout will be posted.
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